Como um ex-advogado construiu uma empresa multimilionária que ensina habilidades sociais – com Jordan Harbinger

Como um ex-advogado construiu uma empresa multimilionária que ensina habilidades sociais – com Jordan Harbinger

Como um ex-advogado construiu uma empresa multimilionária que ensina habilidades sociais - com Jordan Harbinger
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Andrew: Olá, lutadores da liberdade. Meu nome é Andrew Warner. Eu sou o fundador da Mixergy.com. Eu fiquei muito sério porque os negócios levo isso muito, muito a sério. Eu realmente quero fazer essas entrevistas para que você e eu possamos aprender com os empreendedores sobre como eles construíram seus negócios. Mais importante, recupere as melhores idéias que pudermos e ajude a expandir nossos próprios negócios.

E quando você faz isso, minha esperança para você, minha esperança para a missão aqui na Mixergy é que você volte e faça uma entrevista aqui na Mixergy e ensine aos outros o que aprendeu ao longo do caminho. O círculo de Mixergy. Eu disse isso há anos, e agora muitos dos milhares de entrevistados que tive aqui no Mixergy fizeram exatamente isso. Empresas bem-sucedidas que eles criaram e depois voltam aqui e fazem uma entrevista sobre isso. E hoje vamos descobrir como um advogado construiu uma empresa multimilionária que ensina habilidades sociais.

Jordan Harbinger é o co-fundador da The Art of Charm, uma empresa que ensina confiança e inteligência emocional. Esta entrevista é patrocinada pela LeadPages. Posteriormente, mostrarei um URL especial para onde você pode acessar, se desejar uma ótima página que ajude a obter mais tráfego para converter em assinantes de e-mail. Preste atenção nisso depois. Primeiro, tenho que dar as boas-vindas à Jordan. Jordan, é bom ter você aqui.

Jordânia: Obrigado por me receber. É engraçado você mencionar LeadPages. Temos LeadPages.

Andrew: Eu sei. Sinto que todos nós usamos LeadPages.

Jordânia: Sim. Bem, eu vi, e fiquei tipo “Isso é real? Isso parece incrível. ”E então eu comecei a usá-lo, e nosso tráfego, você sabe, nosso aperto ou o que você quiser chamar, o marketing por email não é meu departamento, obviamente, na ASU, passou pelo telhado, cara.

Andrew: Porque Clay Collins, o cara que criou a empresa, é obcecado por taxas de conversão.

Jordânia: Sim.

Andrew: Eu vejo o que eles fazem para ajustar as coisas. Vejo como eles permitem que você insira o endereço de e-mail de alguém antes mesmo de colocá-lo no site. Vejo como eles colocam um botão para aumentar as taxas de conversão e brincam com as cores e tudo mais. De qualquer forma, devo informar às pessoas se você deseja minha página, aquela que funciona especialmente bem para mim, que gera mais de 20% de taxa de conversão, eis o URL para acessar. AndrewsWelcomeGate.com, AndrewsWalcomeGate.com. Jordan, você estava aqui por uísque, certo?

Jordânia: Sim, eu estava e agora estou aqui para o Scotch.

Andrew: Oh, você está tomando uísque enquanto conversamos! Super!

Jordânia: São 17:00 Hora Padrão Central, ou algo assim, em algum lugar. De qualquer forma…

Andrew: Espera, você não está mais no horário da costa do Pacífico?

Jordânia: Estou, mas são apenas 4:00 aqui, o que seria uma vergonha.

Andrew: Gotcha, então você está procurando a desculpa.

Jordânia: Sim.

Andrew: Mas você veio aqui ao Mixergy HQ. Estávamos aqui com alguns caras, e estávamos conversando muito aberto. Nem vou falar sobre as coisas em que entramos porque ficamos realmente cru aqui. Na saída, tivemos um pouco de queijo e bolachas extras. Eu disse: “Alguém quer isso?” Você se lembra do que disse?

Jordânia: Eu disse: “Sim, dê para mim.” Enfiei no bolso como uma pessoa sem-teto.

Andrew: Eu tinha Saran Wrap. Eu embrulhei para você. Você pegou no seu bolso. Então, levei-me ao elevador, um punhado de nós, e eu disse: “Ei, Jordan. Agora que estamos todos um pouco tontos aqui, você pode estar aberto. Quanto dinheiro você tem?”

Jordânia: Sim, as coisas estão bem em casa?

Andrew: Sim, era para isso que eu estava entrando. Vou perguntar agora, na câmera, que tipo de receita vocês estão recebendo?

Jordânia: Quer dizer, é engraçado porque é a única coisa em que meus parceiros de negócios não querem que eu seja muito específico, mas vou puxar um Ramit Sethi e não informar o número exato. Mas direi, multi-multi-sete números. Algum dia, tenho certeza de que voltarei novamente e falarei: “E aqui está o número enorme!” Mas, honestamente, é mais dinheiro do que eu jamais pensei que ganharia em toda a minha vida, o que é bem legal. E várias sete figuras.

Andrew: Não sei se você se lembra da pergunta de acompanhamento que eu tinha para você no elevador depois de alguns uísques que eram: “Você tem mais de um milhão no banco?”

Jordânia: Certo, e minha resposta foi “não” porque quem mantém essa quantia em dinheiro? Você precisa colocá-lo em ativos e coisas assim.

Andrew: Então, em que tipo de ativos você o coloca?

Jordânia: Propriedade. Eu tenho muitos fundos mútuos que são super chatos. Eu invisto em algumas empresas que ainda não são públicas, como coisas realmente em estágio inicial. Espero que isso não desça pelos tubos. Investindo assim, você está basicamente colocando [??].

Andrew: Que tal agora? Caixa e equivalentes de caixa. Eu consideraria um fundo mútuo equivalente em dinheiro.

Jordânia: Sim.

Andrew: Então, por que você pegou o queijo?

Jordânia: Por que eu peguei o queijo?

Andrew: Por que você pegou o queijo?

Jordânia: Foi realmente muito bom queijo.

Andrew: Não foi?

Jordânia: E, você sabe, eu não vou à Whole Foods e compro queijo friggin. Minha namorada dizia: “Você não precisa de tudo isso”. Enquanto isso, eu tenho esse enorme pedaço de queijo que é todo meu agora. Se isso faz você se sentir melhor, eu não comi tudo porque era muito queijo. Minha namorada não queria a maior parte, e eu comi uma tonelada.

Andrew: Esse é o melhor queijo, e posso dizer isso de todo o coração porque eu testei o queijo AB. Eu me inscrevi na Amazon Fresh, trouxe todos os tipos diferentes de queijo que pude a partir daí, e nenhum deles competirá com aquele queijo da Trader Joe’s. Tudo bem, vamos falar sobre como você chegou aqui. Você sabe o que? Eu acho que posso ter cometido um erro no topo da entrevista. Eu disse que você era um escritório de advocacia, que era advogado. Você era advogado?

Jordânia: Sim, eu era advogado.

Andrew: Você era? Ok, bom.

Jordânia: Ainda sou tecnicamente advogado no estado de Nova York.

Andrew: E então, você começou a frequentar a faculdade de direito com a idéia de que seria advogado ou que seria um figurão em Wall Street?

Jordânia: Oh, pior ideia do mundo. Eu fui para a faculdade de direito porque não sabia mais o que fazer depois da graduação.

Andrew: Foi apenas a próxima coisa a fazer para se manter ocupado enquanto você descobria.

Jordânia: Foi, literalmente, graduação terminou. Entrei na Best Buy. Eu disse a eles que poderia consertar computadores. Eles disseram, legal. Você trabalhou aqui por três anos antes de fazer isso. Lembro-me de ir, não há como trabalhar aqui por três anos em geral. Muito menos antes que eu receba o trabalho que é interessante. Lá, como, bem, você pode vender CDs.

Pensei: por que venderia algo que nem existirá em quatro anos? Naquele momento, fui para casa, fiquei super deprimido por uma tarde. Então foi oh, isso é estúpido. Eu não vou conseguir um emprego estúpido como este. Sou formado pela Universidade de Michigan, e a depressão foi basicamente uau, isso não significa nada para ninguém. Ninguém se importa.

Então, é claro, eu tinha um parente que era, tipo, você deveria ser um advogado, o que é um conselho idiota porque não se baseia em nada. Eu me inscrevi em faculdades de direito e acabei entrando em Michigan, que então descobri que havia classificações e coisas assim para a faculdade de direito, o que é uma obsessão doentia. Eu fui para o Michigan. Minha namorada morava em Michigan na época. Eu fui para a lei de Michigan.

Não me arrependo, porque foi incrível. Eu estava com pessoas super inteligentes que eram muito mais espertas do que eu, tinham uma ótima ética de trabalho e aprimoramos isso como um louco por três anos, mas foi muito caro. Então saí e consegui um emprego na Wall Street através de conexões de rede. Agora, eu não uso nada.

Andrew: Você sabe o que? Estou a olhar para ti. Você é um cara que teve um programa de rádio da XM, um podcast de sucesso, ensinando as pessoas em eventos ao vivo como construir relacionamentos. Você é claramente um traficante, um cara que trabalha intensamente, tem idéias criativas de negócios. Não consigo imaginar alguém assim na faculdade de direito.

Jordânia: Não.

Andrew: Você não teve essa fome naquela época? Você não disse, eu quero deixar minha marca no mundo? Eu quero fazer dinheiro. Eu quero ser algo maior do que um cara em um escritório de advocacia.

Jordânia: Eu estava passando por uma coisa estranha de crise que não parecia tão urgente na época. É engraçado, porque agora que penso nisso, lembro-me de estar na faculdade de direito, vou ser o pior funcionário do mundo. Qualquer um que me contrate ficará chateado porque trabalho para eles porque não me importo. Não consigo me importar e não consigo entender por que deveria, mesmo sabendo que meu pai odiava ouvir isso porque trabalhava na Ford.

Ele foi ótimo e foi um ótimo gerente, ou o que quer. Eu não sabia que era um empreendedor. Eu não sabia que era o que eu penso agora, que é que porcaria é genética, cara. Eu apenas pensei que realmente não estava preparado para o que todo mundo estava entrando. Mesmo quando eu estava na faculdade de direito, 20/20 em retrospectiva, eu não estudava muito. Eu trabalhei duro, mas não estudei muito.

Eu leio tudo Eu preparei tudo, mas não consegui aprender a memorizar. Não pude prestar atenção na aula. O que fiz foi fazer amizade com muitas dessas crianças inteligentes que também podiam se comunicar muito bem. Eles participaram mais. Começamos um grupo de estudo na primeira semana. Todo mundo tirou sarro de nós, especialmente eu. Eles estavam, tipo, por que você está em um grupo de estudo que é nerd?

Eu pensei, porque essa é a única coisa que vai me deixar passar por isso. Nos conhecemos toda semana algumas vezes. Eu fui a muitas dessas crianças e disse: ouça, divulgação completa, não sou o melhor aluno, mas farei as melhores perguntas para vocês. Se vocês me ensinarem tudo o que eu preciso saber, pedirei a você todos os detalhes, e todos os pequenos detalhes disso. Alguns caras, especialmente alguns desses caras indianos, russos e outras coisas que são super analíticas. Eles eram, tipo, é disso que eu preciso.

Porque memorizei todos os detalhes, mas não posso separá-los como você pode. O único problema era que eu não conseguia ouvir. Eles passavam e me ensinavam tudo. Eu iria, bem, por que isso não faz a mesma coisa que quando as leis parecem assim. Eles iriam, hmm, bem, acho que é provavelmente porque isso, isso, isso e isso. Eles voltariam ao horário comercial dos professores com 80 milhões de perguntas.

Quando o tempo do exame chegou, fomos feitos porque já tínhamos passado por todas essas coisas um milhão de vezes com a turma e com todo mundo.

Andrew: Eu vejo.

Jordânia: Eu arrasei na faculdade de direito, mas não foi por minha causa. Foi por causa desses caras. As crianças inteligentes me ensinaram tudo.

Andrew: Você conseguiu um emprego e notou algo no escritório de advocacia, que era um cara que quase nunca estava no escritório que ganhava mais dinheiro do que todos os outros.

Jordânia: Certo.

Andrew: Lembro de ter visto isso no primeiro escritório de advocacia que contratei. Por que ele estava se saindo melhor do que todos os outros, mesmo que ele não estivesse na empresa. Ele não estava muito no escritório?

Jordânia: Sim. É uma história engraçada porque esse cara era do Brooklyn e tinha um ótimo bronzeado, o que é uma bandeira vermelha imediata, certo. Qualquer pessoa do Brooklyn com um bronzeado, você deve se perguntar o que diabos está acontecendo. Ele nunca esteve lá. Eventualmente, ele foi uma espécie de, tipo, minha citação, sem aspas, mentor. O que isso significa é que o RH era, tipo, seu mentorado, Jordan Harbinger. Ele é, tipo, tanto faz, mas é assim que a orientação funciona na maioria dos escritórios de advocacia.

Andrew: Eles atribuem você a um mentor?

Jordânia: Eles atribuem isso no começo. Eles vão, hein, tudo bem. Vou levá-lo para um jantar caro, todas as despesas pagas em algum lugar perto do escritório e depois devolver. Ele me levou para tomar café um dia e ele vai, tudo bem. Me pergunte qualquer coisa. Tenho certeza de que ele esperava dizer algo como, oh, como as transações imobiliárias realmente funcionam ou algo assim? Eu disse, como você está? . . Eu realmente pensei que ele iria me demitir, mas não me importei. Por que há um boato de que você ganha mais dinheiro, mas nunca está no escritório? Você apenas trabalha em casa, ou o quê?

Ele meio que riu sem jeito, recostou-se na cadeira e foi, tudo bem. Tudo bem, vou lhe dizer, porque continuei dizendo, ouça, vejo o outro parceiro com quem trabalho ao lado e eles estão no escritório às 1:00 da manhã de domingo. Fui até lá tarde num domingo para mostrar a minha mãe e meu parceiro de negócios, AJ, o escritório onde eu estava trabalhando e tirar uma coca-cola da despensa, e havia muitas pessoas lá.

Eu pensei, o que diabos está acontecendo aqui? Ele não estava lá nem durante o horário comercial. Perguntei-lhe qual era o acordo. Ele disse que, todos esses técnicos, aqueles que trabalham tanto, trabalham dia e noite, todos esses caras que vêm do país antigo, ou os pais vêm do país antigo, eles trabalham 24 horas por dia, 7 dias por semana. Você não pode competir com isso. O conhecimento técnico deles é ótimo, mas no final do dia é meio que substituível por outra pessoa com a mesma quantidade de conhecimento.

A única coisa que não é facilmente substituível é alguém com uma ótima rede, porque, mesmo que você encontre outra pessoa com uma rede realmente boa, ainda deseja que as duas pessoas trabalhem com você porque elas geram negócios. Seu tempo foi literalmente melhor gasto no campo de golfe em um cruzeiro, em um evento de caridade, fazendo jiu jitsu, fazendo yoga com banqueiros e outras pessoas que fazem negócios e tinham negócios para o escritório de advocacia do que no escritório. . Seu tempo no escritório foi mal gasto.

Andrew: O ponto principal para você é o conhecimento que existe e existem pessoas suficientes. Relacionamentos não são suficientes. Se eu pudesse construir um relacionamento com um cara, posso ganhar mais dinheiro, me divertir mais, essa é a vida para mim. Você era o tipo de pessoa que era social no ensino médio? Você era o tipo de pessoa que fala com estranhos?

Jordânia: Não, na verdade não. Não. Eu definitivamente era muito tímido quando criança também. No ensino médio, comecei a sair da minha concha um pouco. Na faculdade, eu meio que recuei lá atrás. Você está certo. Conhecimento, do jeito que você coloca, é perfeito. O conhecimento é essencialmente uma mercadoria, mesmo nos níveis mais altos. Alguns são esotéricos. Alguns deles são mais difíceis de obter do que outros e outros obtidos com a experiência, mas no final do dia sempre haverá um conjunto maior de pessoas que têm esse conhecimento versus o conjunto de pessoas que têm o tipo certo de rede e conexões.

É claro que, mais tarde, quando essa empresa decaiu, ele apenas saltou e foi direto para o nível de parceiro de outra empresa no centro de Manhattan. Ele provavelmente nem precisou se mexer, nem precisou mudar o lugar de estacionamento habitual. Todo mundo se ferrou.

Andrew: Você vê isso e o que faz? Como isso muda o curso da sua vida?

Jordânia: Foi incrível, porque o que eu fiz foi então, espere um minuto. Não preciso trabalhar todas essas outras pessoas no escritório. Eu só tenho que ser um networker melhor do que eles. Já gostei de conversar com as pessoas, embora eu não seja o melhor nisso, mas certamente odeio rastrear documentos e verificar todos esses pequenos detalhes legais. Até a parte da pesquisa que todo mundo diz ser tão fascinante sobre a lei, que arrepia se você não gostar, certo. Isso é péssimo.

Sempre haverá pessoas que podem fazer isso melhor do que você. Eu fui, tudo bem. Eu vou me aprofundar no conjunto de habilidades dessas pessoas e ser o mais humanamente possível, porque no final do dia, se eu puder passar as prováveis ​​10.000 horas dominando isso e dominando os negócios de financiamento imobiliário, poderei fique noivo mais. No final do dia, sou mais valioso do que o cara que domina os outros conjuntos de habilidades. [??]

Andrew: O que você aprendeu antes de ser especialmente bom nisso? Qual é uma dica básica que você pode nos dar sobre a qual aprendeu?

Jordânia: Uma das dicas básicas super e rudimentares que todo mundo vai seguir, pphh, eu sabia disso, é que a comunicação não verbal supera a comunicação verbal toda vez. Isso parece tão óbvio agora, mas há 10, 15 anos ou mais atrás, isso não era algo que todo mundo sabia, certo. Muitas pessoas não sabiam que sua comunicação não verbal era muito mais importante do que as palavras que você diz.

Que sua entrega foi fundamental. Que suas primeiras impressões foram feitas quando você entrou na sala, não quando decidiu se apresentar. Aqueles eram [??] para mim.

Andrew: [??] Eu vi você. Você entrou na sala por uísque. Você estava muito confiante e conversador. Havia outro cara e não me lembro do nome dele agora.

Jordânia: Ninguém nunca vai se lembrar do nome dele. Eu me sinto mal.

Andrew: Ele é muito tímido.

Jordânia: Sim.

Andrew: Dei-lhe o uísque como uma maneira de dizer, veja, você pode estar no controle aqui.

Jordânia: Certo.

Andrew: Eu disse, você derrama a primeira rodada para todos. Pude ver que ele ficou um pouco intimidado com isso, porque você não sabe o quanto derramar uísque. Não é a água onde você vai até o topo do copo.

Jordânia: Certo.

Andrew: Não há linha em um copo que diz aqui. O que ele poderia fazer de maneira diferente, sabendo disso, para se mostrar realmente poderoso neste pequeno evento?

Jordânia: Sim.

Andrew: Não é como se nós estivéssemos sentados.

Jordânia: Teoricamente, não há razão para ele ficar tão quieto lá, certo, mas ele estava. Quando ele entrou, ele ficou ao meu lado enquanto eu estava lá conversando com seu assessor.

Andrew: Olivia, minha esposa.

Jordânia: Sim. Sua esposa.

Andrew: Ela estava terminando o dia.

Jordânia: Certo. Então eu estava sentado conversando com ela e ele ficou lá. E eu lembro de olhar para ele e dizer: “Ei, cara.” Como se você dissesse algo em vez de apenas sem jeito … eu não tinha certeza se ele era um entregador de comida ou algo assim. Como se ele realmente não tivesse presença.

Andrew: Então, o que ele faz? Quero dizer, ele é claramente … Ele não conhece ninguém. É uma situação intimidadora. Você não sabe que 50 pessoas vão aparecer? Ou isso será apenas nós cinco, três de nós ou quantos? Sobre o que será a conversa? Estou mesmo no lugar certo. As pessoas me disseram: “Sinto-me um pouco estranho por estar aqui, Andrew, porque não sou um empreendedor de verdade. No entanto, um dia talvez eu seja um empreendedor e mereça estar aqui por Scott. ”O que é meio estranho quando é como nós quatro sentados.

Jordânia: Certo. Se eles soubessem.

Andrew: Eu entendo isso. O que você faz se alguém é assim e ouve Jordan dizer que a comunicação não verbal é importante? Me dê uma coisa para fazer. O que eles fazem? Eles entram? Eles apenas fecham a mão quando entram?

Jordânia: Apenas soco soco todo mundo. [??]

Andrew: O que eles fazem? Eles … vão em frente.

Jordânia: Ele entrou e não disse nada e não se deu a conhecer.

Andrew: Não, eu entendi. Mas nessa situação, o que ele deveria fazer?

Jordânia: Exatamente. Entre e diga olá a todos. Isso soa como uma dica idiota, porque é tão óbvio. Mas aqui está a coisa. Ele estava lá com medo de nos interromper. Quando você chega de algum lugar, se você entra e diz: “Ei, pessoal”. E você se apresenta: “Ei, pessoal. Eu sou Jordan. “Não importa. As pessoas podem dizer: “Ah, nós estávamos conversando aqui”. Mas ninguém vai dizer “que bárbaro”. Eles vão perceber que você entrou e se deu a conhecer. Você se apresentou.

De fato, temos esse tipo de regra social não escrita esquisita que as apresentações sempre superam qualquer outra coisa que está acontecendo em uma conversa. Porque se você não se apresentar, é estranho. E se você não sabe com quem está falando, também é estranho. Então você tem esse ás na manga. Se você precisa se apresentar, pode realmente parar alguém no meio da frase e dizer: “Desculpe, desculpe, cara. Eu sou o Jordan. Não acredito que nos conhecemos. ”E não é tão rude. Mesmo se eles estiverem no meio de uma frase maldita falando com outra pessoa. Então, definitivamente, deveria ter se apresentado. Ele não parecia um schlep. Ele estava bem em todos os outros aspectos. Não é como se ele estivesse debruçado em uma pequena posição fetal.

Andrew: Cara bonito, tinha muita coisa para ele.

Jordânia: Exatamente.

Andrew: Tudo certo. Então entre, não tenha medo de interromper e você está certo. Socialmente, estamos bem com alguém que se apresenta, mesmo que no meio da frase.

Jordânia: Exatamente.

Andrew: Tudo certo. Você conheceu AJ, que é seu parceiro. Certo?

Jordânia: Certo. Parceiro de negócios.

Andrew: Parceiro de negócios. Desculpe. Não é parceiro de vida. Parceiro de negócios.

Jordânia: É um homem de São Francisco. Seja claro.

Andrew: Falando de. AJ era muito bom com mulheres. Você era realmente bom com as mulheres crescendo?

Jordânia: De jeito nenhum. Eu fui péssima. AJ era muito bom com mulheres.

Andrew: Dê-me um exemplo de quão ruim você foi em buscar mulheres. Eu deveria dizer pegar mulheres. Nós não estávamos pensando em pegar mulheres no ensino médio. Eu queria estar em um relacionamento com uma mulher. Eu não gostaria de buscá-la. Não pude. Eu tinha 115 quilos.

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Jordânia: Oh cara.

Andrew: O que eu queria era apenas iniciar uma conversa com alguém de meu interesse. Eu não sabia como fazê-lo. Dê-me um exemplo de quão ruim você era.

Jordânia: Lembro que havia uma garota que gostava de mim e que suas amigas sabiam disso. Eles estavam tentando conectá-la comigo, mesmo que eu não fosse realmente amigo deles. Porque eu estava quieto e não tinha muitas amigas, era meio brincalhão. Ela assumiu o risco mais louco e louco de um dia e levantou-se no meio da classe de 90 pessoas, pouco antes do início da palestra. Ela diz: “Jordan, você vai comigo para Sadie Hawkins, que é a dança em que as garotas perguntam aos garotos.?

E lembro-me de ficar vermelho beterraba, colocar meus livros na cadeira e sair direto do fundo da sala para ir ao banheiro enquanto todo mundo cantava: “Faça. Faça isso. ”Você sabe, porque eles se sentiram mal por ela e foi estranho para mim. Então foi como uma vitória dupla para todos na sala de aula. Ela se sentiu horrível. Enquanto isso, eu não estava pensando nela. Eu só estava pensando em como ela provavelmente estava tirando sarro de mim e como suas amigas provavelmente também estavam tirando sarro de mim. E eu estava realmente chateado.

Depois da escola, uma das amigas dela, que eu meio que conhecia, era como “O que foi tudo isso?” E eu fiquei tipo, “Sabe, vocês não precisam piorar as coisas do que já são.” Duh, duh, duh. ”E eles eram como,“ Do que você está falando? Ela tem uma queda por você há dois anos. ”Nesse ponto, eu me senti uma idiota total porque não fazia ideia. Eu estava tão na minha cabeça que literalmente pensei: “Bem, essa garota está falando comigo na frente de todas essas pessoas. Não é um risco que ela esteja assumindo, porque gosta de mim a ponto de estar desesperada para chamar minha atenção. Ela só quer fazer teatral com o quão tímida eu sou. ”Foi assim que eu estava envolvido na minha porcaria.

E no final do dia, não era verdade. Ela literalmente tinha uma queda por mim há muito tempo. Eu só não tinha ideia de como lidar com isso. Então essa foi uma grande metáfora de como eu estava deprimido com o sexo oposto nos primeiros 20 anos da minha vida. E sugou. E sugou.

Andrew: AJ não era assim. Você tem um exame … A propósito, que exemplo incrível! Eu me identifico totalmente com isso. Na minha cabeça, estou imaginando alguns exemplos da minha vida em que fiz isso. Então AJ foi como?

Jordânia: AJ, eu lembro da época em que percebi que ele era tão bom com garotas. Um dia, era no meu aniversário e estávamos saindo. Nós fomos a este bar. Eu estava de frente para ele e, atrás dele, havia uma mesa de quatro meninas, talvez cinco ou seis meninas. E ele ficou tipo, “Ei, como essas garotas ficam atrás de mim?” E eu fiquei tipo, “Oh, elas são fofas”. E ele ficou tipo, “Elas estão interessadas em falar conosco, eu fiquei tipo , OK.

Primeiro de tudo, não, não são porque blá, blá, blá, meus próprios problemas estranhos. Em segundo lugar, como diabos você sabe? Você está de frente para mim, eu estou de frente para você. O que você poderia saber sobre essa mesa de garotas? Você nem sabe como eles são. Ele diz: “Confie em mim. Eles estão dizendo coisas um pouco mais alto do que precisam para ouvir um ao outro e estão falando sobre assuntos especificamente projetados para chamar nossa atenção. ”Ele nem disse isso assim, mas era o que ele meio que comunicado. E eu fiquei tipo: “Do que você está falando?”

Eu fiquei tipo: “Vamos sair daqui, quero ir para um lugar diferente, é meu aniversário, não quero falar com essas garotas. Você não sabe do que está falando, apenas vamos nos envergonhar. “Ele diz:” Tudo bem, sua perda “.

Quando vamos embora, estou colocando minha jaqueta, ele coloca a jaqueta, ele está no meio da porta e as meninas dizem: “Ei, onde vocês estão indo? Nós iremos com você “. E eles, como, pegaram suas coisas e a garota disse: “Espere, o que você está fazendo? Nós não pagamos a conta. ”E a garota estava tipo:“ Aonde você está indo? ”Como gritar conosco. E eu fiquei tipo, “Uh, blá, blá, blá, outro bar”. E ele diz: “Eu te disse.” E eu fiquei tipo, “Ok, volte para o caminhão.” E passamos as próximas cinco horas conversando sobre todas as coisas que ele sabia que eu não sabia, e literalmente passamos o em seguida, penso, três anos falando sobre o que era então, você sabe, o começo do nosso podcast. Porque eu não entendi o que ele sabia intuitivamente, e foi fascinante.

Andrew: E era um relacionamento de mentor protegido onde. . .

Jordânia: Sim.

Andrew:. . . AJ era o cara que estava te ensinando. Até agora, conversamos muito sobre relacionamentos, conversamos muito sobre nossa conexão mais de uma vez que nos conhecemos por uísque. Ainda não chegamos ao negócio. Como a percepção que você teve no escritório de advocacia e a conexão que você tem com a AJ levam a um negócio? Qual foi o primeiro passo que vocês deram que permitiu criar um negócio juntos?

Jordânia: Certo. Então saímos, seis, sete noites por semana, durante um ano, mais de um ano em Ann Arbor, e tínhamos todos esses caras e empresários nos perguntando como você conhece todo mundo, porque teríamos pessoas entrando nos bares por as dezenas onde íamos sair. Os caras estavam lá para aprender o que estávamos fazendo com a garota e como estávamos criando esses relacionamentos e os empresários eram: “Vocês bebem de graça porque estão trazendo 30 pessoas para onde quer que vão”.

Andrew: Espere, os caras vinham até você e diziam. . .

Jordânia: Sim.

Andrew:. . . Vou pagar, espere, então como esses caras descobriram sobre você?

Jordânia: Eles nos assistiram. Eles iam, ok, quero dizer, caras bêbados se aproximavam de nós às 11h da manhã e diziam: “Ei. Você está com garotas diferentes todas as noites. Qual é o problema? Eu te vejo saindo todos os sábados, ou três vezes “, dependendo da frequência com que saem. . .

Andrew: E eles o conheceriam pessoalmente. . .

Jordânia: Sim.

Andrew:. . . e você diria: “Eu vou te ensinar se você me pagar?”

Jordânia: Diríamos que basta comprar-nos bebidas e você pode sair, e eles poderiam me enviar um e-mail ou me ligar quando sair e tínhamos uma lista de 28 caras. E telefonávamos para um pequeno número deles e garantíamos que tivéssemos bebidas gratuitas pelo resto da noite, e os proprietários do local também nos dariam bebidas gratuitas porque atrairíamos tantas pessoas. Então, nunca pagamos pelo jantar, nunca pagamos por bebidas. . .

Andrew: Espere, os caras que entram nos bares geralmente não são um grande benefício, porque você não está gastando tanto dinheiro, não está atraindo muitas mulheres. Os barmen não costumam comprar bebidas para os caras que vêm. Eles compram bebidas para as mulheres.

Jordânia: Certo.

Andrew: Ou eles querem que você, eles querem homens e mulheres para pagar. Como esses caras acabaram pagando pelas suas bebidas?

Jordânia: Eles se ofereceram, dissemos aos caras para pagar pelas bebidas, e os proprietários do local e os garçons pagariam por nossas bebidas porque nós os amávamos e também porque diríamos ao gerente, como ‘Ei, eu trago de 8 a 10 caras aqui todo sábado. Você pode ligar? ‘E eles ficam tipo’ Sim, claro. Os três primeiros estão em casa. ”E quero dizer, quando você diz os três primeiros drinques e pode pedir um copo cheio de vodka e outro copo cheio de Coca-Cola, você é bom, a menos que seja alcoólatra, pelo resto da noite.

Andrew: Ok, então estamos falando de três bebidas no total. Não três por pessoa.

Jordânia: Não, não, três por pessoa e, além disso, os caras que estávamos saindo comprariam o resto. Portanto, não pagamos bebidas há meses.

Andrew: Nesse ponto, a comunidade de captadores já havia começado. O material sobre o qual Neil Strauss escreveu já tinha. . .

Jordânia: Ainda não saiu.

Andrew: Ainda não saiu.

Jordânia: Não, ainda não saiu.

Andrew: Mas você estava olhando on-line e lendo o que estava acontecendo?

Jordânia: Não. Não vimos a maioria dessas coisas. E quando vimos, éramos assim tão estranhos, não quero nada com isso e não há como essas coisas funcionarem e não estou pedindo um chapéu de luz.

Andrew: Então, o que você está falando sobre o talento ou o. . .

Jordânia: O pavão, estranho. . .

Andrew: O pavão é o que eles chamam de atenção.

Jordânia: Essas coisas são tão ridículas e não havia como acontecer, não estávamos fazendo isso.

Andrew: Então, o próximo passo é criar um podcast ou começar a vender aulas para esses caras?

Jordânia: Acidentalmente iniciamos o podcast da maneira que os caras pensavam: ‘Você deveria escrever um livro, deveria escrever um livro, deveria escrever um livro’. AJ era um biólogo do câncer. Eu estava estudando para o exame do Bar. Ninguém vai escrever um livro, certo? Então decidimos fazer algum tipo de coisa de CD Audio e talvez entregá-lo a caras que nos pedissem essas coisas, porque achamos que essas informações devem ser gratuitas. Quero dizer, foi tão bom.

E então AJ ficou tipo, ‘Ei, escute, existe uma coisa chamada podcasting. Existem 800 deles no novo iTunes lançado. É bem legal. Devemos comprar alguns microfones do Guitar Center, gravar algumas coisas e colocá-las on-line. E então, quando as pessoas querem, podemos simplesmente dizer a eles o site para fazer o download. Então ele criou um site, gravamos algumas coisas, esboçamos alguns episódios, colocamos online e. Éramos um dos 800 ou 8.000, ou quantos podcasts existissem, em 2005.

Andrew: Dois mil e cinco. E na época o site se chamava Pickup Podcast?

Jordânia: Certo, porque era tudo sobre pegar as mulheres naquela época. Nós não nos importávamos com outras coisas então. Não vimos a sobreposição.

Andrew: Veja o que o lado do site diz. “Junte-se a nós todas as semanas, quando AJ e Jordan discutem captação, namoro e dinâmica social. Cada programa inclui dicas, táticas, citações de ouvintes e histórias do campo, projetadas para ajudá-lo a organizar seu jogo. ”

Jordânia: Vergonhoso. Isso é da Wayback Machine ou algo assim, certo? Porque…

Andrew: Sim, caminho de volta.

Jordânia: Porque eu ia dizer, isso se foi por …

Andrew: Até o domínio não existe mais.

Jordânia: … anos.

Andrew: Certo. O domínio agora redireciona para ArtofCharmPodcast.com, certo? Se eu me lembro …

Jordânia: Sim.

Andrew: Agora estou vendo uma versão do site em 2007, e aqui está o que diz no sábado, 17 de março de 2007. “Uau! So for those of you who’ve been paying attention, you know we’ve been giving away a ton of free stuff every week. Yet we still get questions, so here’s a laundry list of the stuff we’re tossing out to about one in five of our listeners who responded to the survey.” And what you have is Steven Nash CD sets, Carlos Zuma e-books, “How to Manage Your Wildly Successful Dating Life,” Mystery Method DVDs — that’s the guy who you’re talking about with the boot?

Jordânia: We were giving a lot of stuff away, because they were sending it to us. They were like, “A lot of our clients are finding us through. Can you do something to promote you?” We were like, “Well, we’re not just going to randomly promote you. Give us a bunch of your products, and we’ll give them away to our guys for free when they ask for it.”

Andrew: I see. But you couldn’t have hated them that much at that point.

Jordânia: No, at that point we hadn’t met them in real life. I don’t hate those guys. To be super clear, I just think it’s ridiculous. A lot of those guys have evolved as well. Guys like that have evolved. Then there’s other guys who haven’t. If you still look at those Mystery guys from VH1, they’re still wearing light-up stuff, and it’s ridiculous. This has been going for eight years. That stuff kind of expired. It’s like, “Get with the program.” Once you meet those guys in real life and you find out that 99% of what they do is internet marketing, and they don’t really care about helping people, it pisses you off. That’s what jaded us a lot to that whole industry.

Andrew: I see on the right side of the page from back then, Pua Training and Boot camps. I see…I know you’re cringing. We have to include the whole thing to see how you got here.

Jordânia: No, you go for it, man. It’s like pulling off a really old Band- Aid.

Andrew: Alpha Immersion DVDs. You were making money off of affiliate links, as far as I could tell by…

Jordânia: No, we never made any affiliate money off of that stuff. If we had affiliate links, they were woefully unsuccessful. We literally got no affiliate money from that stuff.

Andrew: I see. I was trying to figure out what the companies are that you’re doing affiliate programs with. I saw something called marketing…where is that? MarketersChoice.com, but maybe that’s other people who are using it, and that’s the way you link to them. My question then is, where is the money in all this? That tail is from your cat.

Jordânia: My cat’s. It’s my cat’s tail. No, it’s my tail, because when I get asked tough questions, it dangles in front of the printer. Sorry, go ahead.

Andrew: Where is the money coming from?

Jordânia: There was no money at that point. We didn’t get…

Andrew: What was the first thing that you sold?

Jordânia: Guys told us they wanted to come to Ann Arbor and learn from us. I said, “Where are you going to stay?” They said, “We have family there. We don’t care.” So we said, “Okay, fine, come to Ann Arbor and we’ll meet up.” There’s a street fair, and we’ll take you out during the day. They said, “How much is it going to cost?” We said, “50 dollars an hour.” One of them said, “That’s it?” We said, “Dammit! Yeah, okay, that’s it.”

And then it happened again a month later, and it happened again a month later. Every time we raised our prices. A couple times before we really got the memo, proverbially, we had a guy saying, “Can you take me to the mall and teach me how to talk to strangers?” And we said, “Sure.” This guy worked for Intel and it was fine. He said, “How much is that?”

We said, “Just buy us dinner and pay us for our time a little bit.” He gave us $900, and we were like, “Whoa.” We thought he was going to give us 50 bucks and dinner. He gave us $900 and he bought us a really nice dinner. We were like, “Wait a minute. There might be something here.”

I started getting phone coaching clients, and then AJ did too, where guys would pay us $100, $150 an hour to stay on the phone with us, talk about social issues they were having. One was an immigrant from some African country that lived in Denmark. He was like, “Listen, I’m having trouble making friends. I’m a student here. I just don’t get it.” I gave him a bunch of drills and exercises, and we talked every single week on Skype. Him and a bunch of his friends were like, “This is changing my life.” And that’s when I was like, “This is really cool.” I didn’t know that it was going to have this big of an impact on other people as it did on myself. We really…

Andrew: How do you know what to tell them to do? It’s so hard to tell someone else what to say. It’s so hard…

Jordânia: It doesn’t matter what you say, and that was part of it. It made it easier.

Andrew: If it doesn’t matter what you say, and I noticed that too, that I can come up with, when I was really struggling I could talk to my brother. We would go out and we would say, “What’s the line? What do we say? Look at that. Do we comment on their dress? Do we comment on their drink? Do we ask them if we can buy them a drink?” We’d get in our head and when I got comfortable with myself and got comfortable talking to strangers, I could just walk over and say, blah, blah, blah, blah. And if they were interested, it would be the wackiest thing, and it would start a conversation.

Jordânia: Yeah, yeah.

Andrew: And if they weren’t, then that’s fine. But to get to that, I needed a crutch. How do you get someone who’s so uncomfortable, who’s in a new country, culturally unsure of himself, what do you tell him that gets him comfortable saying something to a stranger?

Jordânia: A lot of it is exposure therapy, and at that point I just didn’t want to make crap up and give it to clients who were paying me money, so I contacted very interesting and value-giving and cool therapists, psychologists, people like that. And I was like, “Listen, what would you give somebody with social anxiety?” I looked up a lot of those dreads and read lots of books and educated myself when I was, “Okay, listen, if this doesn’t work for you, you don’t pay me.”

That’s what I gave to every single client, and that’s the guarantee that we still give to Art of Charm clients because we don’t want them to shoulder the risk, the burden of the risk. So we would say, “All right. Listen, if you rode the bus and you see people that you want to talk to and they’re not talking to you, it’s not because you’re African, it’s because you live in Norway and people don’t frigging talk to each other on the bus. Nor do they do that in the United States.

So just lean over, and at that point it was whatever he was comfortable with. I mean, some clients it was ask for directions. Other clients were like tell them that you’re new in the country, and you’re having trouble making friends. And he’s like, “Wow, that’s dangerous. That feels dangerous.” And I said, “If it feels dangerous but it doesn’t feel physically dangerous, then just got for it and see what happens. Just don’t get arrested.”

And so, of course, he did that and he did that for months and months and months. He ended up with this really cool girlfriend. He had a circle of friends, people that he’s met like in libraries and student places, and he wrote me an email years later that, “This has changed my whole life. I never would have been able to assimilate as well as I have”, and it was actually Denmark not Norway, “As I would have without your help. I really appreciate it, and I have a job. I have a family now and all this stuff.”

That was awesome, and that’s what we do, and that’s what I love doing about it. And so it really is courageous to everybody because you can’t give a cookie cutter/answer/cookie cutter solution for every single client that comes through, and that’s why we cap our programs at seven or eight guys. Yet we have like seven coaches because it’s just too [??]

Andrew: Seven or eight guys in person?

Jordan, Right, in our live training, at our school. They stay overnight for the week.

Andrew: Is that the first thing that you did, took people up on their offer to fly in and learn?

Jordânia: Yeah, they flew in and learned, but they didn’t stay with us. And then after that it was fun coaching, and then after that guys were flying in and staying with us. We were based in Manhattan at the time. They would stay in my apartment in Manhattan, and they would sleep there. There were like one or two guys every week because we had no real . . . our audience was tiny, and they would do that, and they would tell their friends.

Fast forward to now, it’s eight guys, seven or eight guys every single week, four months, six months in advance. But then the season we’re booked out completely.

Andrew By the way, that sound, I was looking at you to say, “You’re a pro. Why are you having audio on? You should know not to. If not, you it’s me.”

Jordânia: It’s you, right?

Andrew: It’s totally me, but that sound is on your site. You have that chatbox where a guy named Ocean Ray [sp] comes in and says, “Hey, welcome. How did you discover the site? It hit me back and, yes, I’m a real person, not a bot. Hey you’ve been here before. I see. You let me know if you need anything. Otherwise, I won’t bug you.”

You guys have your stuff so together, like it’s really a professional operation that it’s hard to now compare today which looks fantastic, where you’re selling something very clearly, which has a phone number at the top . . .

Jordânia: Right.

Andrew: . . . has this guy, Ocean, on the bottom who is going to chat with you, when before where you clearly were trying to figure out your way. I’m looking around here. If see my eyes darting everywhere, it’s because . . . there it is. Your tag line, your podcast name was “pickup podcast.” The tag line was “where gurus gather.”

Jordânia: Sim. And that was terrible. I mean, I’ll be the first to say, “That’s a terrible name.” But the marketing worked really great because people were looking for that, and we called it hiding the broccoli, right? Because in order to get a kid to eat broccoli which is good for them, you have to cover it in cheese.

And that’s what we were doing back then, but now we’re refined. Thank God we don’t need to do that anymore because people aren’t looking for quick fixes. They’re not looking for . . . and if they are, they’re not fit for what we do. Back then we were kind of like trying to survive. Now we can filter in people who get it, and by get it they go, “This is a process. It’s going to take work. It’s not about getting a fix. It’s about me, and it’s about the work I’m willing to put in.”

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We filter for that now. Back then it was like, “Is this a business? Eu não sei. I have a day job. Hopefully, it is.”

Andrew: When did you know it would be a business?

Jordânia: You know what? Honestly, it took years and years. I’m trying to . . . That’s a good question because I’m thinking about I’d quit law and even then I was like, “Oh, am I going to have to become, like, a school teacher?” Not that there’s anything wrong with that. My mom does that. But am I going to have to get a day job again?

And the answer . . . eventually, the answer was no, probably like three, four years ago. And that’s probably 50% of the company history was with me spent going, “I just want to work at the Post Office. Those people don’t have that much stress,” which is a lie because they shoot each other. But there was so much stress at points that I wished I was not in business for myself. Now that I literally never wish for that, ever, I mean, at all.

Andrew: So about three years ago was there . . .

Jordânia: Four, four, four years ago, yeah, four years ago.

Andrew: . . . was there a milestone, a product that you sold that suddenly took you over? Jordan: No, it was we brought in some new blood to the company. We got rid of a lot of dumbass people, if I can say that on your show, that were just, like, value drains, stupid friends that we’d hired that turned out to be more trouble than they were worth. Stuff like that, we got rid of all those people.

We had, finally, our website was working a lot better. Our show audience was growing like crazy. And it was just, all signs were go. And our clients were super satisfied. We weren’t making stupid mistakes anymore due to laziness or incompetence. And I mean, that’s like an ongoing battle whenever you run a team.

Andrew: So it was just constant, small improvements? I’ll tell you for Mixergy what did it . . .

Jordânia: Sim.

Andrew: . . . was I was trying to figure out where’s the revenue in doing Mixergy. Otherwise, I either pay for all the work out of my pocket, like pay Joe, the editor, out of my pocket, or I have to close it down. And I didn’t want to do either one. I tried a bunch of different things and then I said, “I’m going to do these small courses.” And one of the first ones was “How to Interview,” and it was like a mini-test course, and people bought it. You were one of the customers who bought it, which . . .

Jordânia: I bought it, yeah.

Andrew: . . . I’m really proud that you did. And that helped take off. That was just the start and then when I switched to memberships so I didn’t have to sell each one individually and deal with all those individual smaller products, life got a whole lot different and now there’s a team here and those two steps were dramatic. You didn’t have anything like that, did you?

Jordânia: No, no, there was no, like, “Oh, that made everything a lot easier.” I mean, that would be great, that would be cool if we had some major big wins like that, but honestly, one of the things that helped me get to the next level and helped us as a company get to the next level was me realizing that I couldn’t pick up all the slack for any other team members that were slacking and I also couldn’t do everything myself.

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So hiring people and getting return on investment beforehand after learning their job was something that I started to replicate. So I did . . . that Ocean Ray guy – that’s a real person, by the way – I did his job for, I think, at least one year, maybe two. That’s why he’s real and talks real, because I wouldn’t outsource to a bot. I want guys with a certain level of competency, I tested them myself, I . . .

Andrew: It was you on the popup box.

Jordânia: For at least a year. I spent 12 hours a day selling.

Andrew: Who makes the popup box? It’s a good one.

Jordânia: That is Live Chat but our outsourcing company is totally separate. They’re based in Australia. And if anybody . . . honestly, I can’t remember off the top of my head, but if people want to email me personally, am I allowed to do this?

Andrew: Sim.

Jordânia: If they want to email me personally, just email me [email protected] and I will introduce you to that plugin and the person that staffs it, because they do a frickin’ phenomenal job.

Andrew: So it’s a company that staffs it, that learns your product well enough . . .

Jordânia: Yes.

Andrew: . . . to be able to respond.

Jordânia: Exactly, exactly. And I can call them any time day or night and somebody will answer. And I know the owner and he’s a boss. And the company . . .

Andrew: And it’s always Ocean Ray who’s on there?

Jordânia: No, it’s, it depends [??].

Andrew: And is it really his photo because Ocean Ray looks like a really good-looking guy. That can’t be him.

Jordânia: Yeah, he’s like a mofo but the girls’ photos I found are fake, which is highly disappointing.

Andrew: Okay.

Jordânia: But yeah, no, we chose, I mean, we selected salesmen with a certain level of English and/or native English but Ocean Ray, honestly, that’s his real name. I told him, “Hey, can you pick a different fake name?” And he was like, “No, because that’s my real name.” And I thought, “Who am I to talk? My last name is Harbinger.” So, you know . . .

Andrew: [laughs] I just sent the one message saying, “What products can I buy?” cause he’s a salesman.

Jordânia: Yeah, and I hope he doesn’t disappoint me live on your show cause I’ll be very pissed.

Andrew: The podcast was the very first thing you created. Not a blog, but a podcast, right?

Jordânia: Right, yeah, no, the blog was a placeholder that said, “Hey, we have another episode. Click here to download it.” That was the blog.

Andrew: Mm-hmm. So how did you get so many viewers for or so many listeners for your podcast? You guys are enormous.

Jordânia: Yeah, right now I think we’ve got like 800,000. We’re one of the largest shows in iTunes. It’s pretty awesome. Eu amo isso. It’s my baby. I’m obsessed with it. I check my iTunes rank every five minutes. But the way that we did it, this is going to sound cliche and dumb, feel free to try and poke holes in it. I am honestly welcoming it. I think putting out consistent quality without trying to be salesy and not trying to be, like, “Here’s a quick fix!” And just telling people like it is.

Also, being authentic in terms of admitting my own shortcomings in every area of my life and probably too publicly? Made us relatable enough that people stuck with us, and giving people things we had tested and not just the latest “flavor of the month” bull crap. That self-help you guys were trying to hock and not hocking those DVDs.

All those DVDs all those products you sell? We gave those away for free, until we weren’t able to any more. Then we removed it from the site. We never sold any of that trash because we didn’t know about it. So people would have to ask for that. Even when we were having links for stuff on our website? We removed those eventually.

I remember at one point we were actually giving people refunds when the person who sold them the product wouldn’t give fund, if they found out about it through our site. We cared enough that we didn’t want them to feel burned by their experience with us. I remember refunding a set of DVDs from a company even though they weren’t our DVD’s. People thought we were crazy. But A.J. and I were like, it doesn’t matter. We just want them to be happy with what we’re doing.

I think that attitude? As cliche as it sounds and putting out only top- notch stuff as far as we could? Was the best thing ever because what that did is, we have people emailing us every day, ‘I’ve been listening to you for seven years.’ I mean, that’s ridiculous! I haven’t done anything for seven years other than wake up in the morning. That’s as consistent as we have been and podcasting is the only other thing.

Andrew: So being good to your audience. But was there something that you did? I know one of the things that you told April Dykeman, here on the research staff at Mixergy you said, “You emailed blogs and you got on message boards and you started asking for links, back in the time when it worked?”

Jordânia: Sim. Back in the day, and you remember this and probably very few other listeners do, blogs were something you did because you actually liked it. You didn’t care if you never became a millionaire off the damn thing. So, I would email everybody in our niche and outside the niche and say, hey I’ve got this show and it’s all about becoming a better guy. Would you check it out and/or link to it? I stayed up until 5 a.m., probably for four straight months during the summer and I emailed every, single blog I could find.

Probably, high double-digit, low three-digit number of blogs were, like, ‘Sure.’ and they linked to us and that built our original audience. People are always asking me, “Oh man, what’s the way to get podcast listeners?” I’m, like, I don’t know, I did it eight years ago and it was a crap load of work that, quite frankly you’re probably not willing to do. And people don’t like that answer but that’s the truth.

Andrew: Why is Lewis Howes sending you so much traffic?

Jordânia: Is he? I didn’t know that.

Andrew: Sim. What’s the connection with Lewis’ site?lewishowes.com, I looked at your. I have a similar web account and I’m looking to see where your traffic is coming from, to get a sense of it. I see pick-up artist, pickuppodcast.com is sending you traffic but that makes sense,

Jordânia: That’s our [??], yeah.

Andrew: because your URL is out there, people are typing it in and they get redirected [anyway]. feedlead of course makes sense because that’s a feed, ourassessreader, and leapdaily maybe, maybe not and then Lewis Howes in the fourth slot. I’m wondering did you do an interview with Lewis? Is that what happened?

Jordânia: Sim. Sim. Lewis is a good buddy of mine, real cool cat, a sharp dude. He interviewed me pretty recently so that’s probably why it’s fresh. I think if you did your way-back machine on the stats, you’d probably see some other large show that I went on recently.

Andrew: That’s the thing. It seems like going on other podcasts also helps you guys.

Jordânia: Oh yes, of course. The trick is though, you’ve got to deliver good stuff. If you go on a large podcast and go, “Everybody go to my website right now!” No one is going to give a crap. The host is going to hate you and maybe never air the show. But, yeah, if you go on and deliver something really good that people can use and you show that you care, like we try to every, single time. Then, yeah, people will come on over. I know that Lewis is sending us traffic. I just didn’t know it was that much. I don’t pay attention to that stuff. I’m supposed to but I don’t.

Andrew: But you do take a look at your rankings on iTunes?

Jordânia: iTunes. That’s kind of like the weavy measuring of the podcast world. It’s like where you are. I want to make damn sure I’m number one in self-help. I want to make damn sure I’m in the top five in health. I want to make damn sure I’m in the top 100..

Andrew: So what do you do if tomorrow you wake up and you’re number three? What do you do to fix it?

Jordânia: That’s a great question. What I would do, I would reach out to my network and say, ‘Hey, I know you’ve been trying to interview me for a while. I would love to come on. Or I would get a high-profile guest and I would interview them. Honestly though, what I typically do is call Apple is the unfair advantage that I have now I’ve been doing this for a long time. I call Apple and I say, “Hey, who would you like to see me interview? I’ve got these ideas and who would you like to see me interview? I’ve got these ideas and who would you put on the front page of iTunes?” And they give me a list out of that list. Then I call those people’s PR. Have my people call their people, you know. Then we set it up. Then I go on the front page of iTunes. [??]

Andrew: Who’s a big name that Apple said if you interview them then it’s a good reason to be on?

Jordânia: Robert Green was a good one. Also because he was our episode 250 which was our seven year anniversary of the show. So that was met with approval. I’ve had quite a few features go up in the front page of Apple. I’ve got some guys coming out in the next few months that I’m not supposed to talk about because they’re not up there yet.

Andrew: Give me a past guest who was especially popular and got you featured.

Jordânia: Robert Green was the most recent one that got me featured.

Andrew: You know what’s great about Robert Green? I believe I interviewed him and I believe, I believe what Ryan Holiday who works for him did was I think he paid to buy ads to send them to Robert’s interview on Mixergy. And if he didn’t buy ads, he did something. Ryan Holiday did something. He does something to promote his guys.

Jordânia: Sure.

Andrew: I don’t know if that happened to you, but they don’t just send Robert Green on. They make sure Robert Green kills.

Jordânia: Well, no. I’m friends with Robert Green so I literally just called him and was like, “Hey. This has been a long time in the making. Why don’t we do this show finally? Oh, also I want to put it on the front page of iTunes.” Which is a great way to get a guest.

Andrew: Got you. So you then email them back or call them back and then they get you on the list. So interviewing is a good one. Interviewing people who are well known. Asking others to interview you. Working the blogs back then made sense. Today you have to be a lot more PRy about it.

Jordânia: Sim. Unfortunately.

Andrew: And I’m trying to think if there’s anything else that I can see from here. Are you buying ads?

Jordânia: No.

Andrew: I can’t find any ad buys.

Jordânia: You will not find any ad buys, my friend.

Andrew: I don’t see…here’s the search terms that seem to do well. Obviously The Art of Charm, The Art of Charm. Jordan Harbinger. People are typing in your name. How to turn a girl on over text?

Jordânia: Sweet.

Andrew: Right. And the reason that is doing well is you have this, according to my friend, Ocean Ray, you have a book on that.

Jordânia: Yes, we do.

Andrew: For a hundred bucks I could buy the book that shows me how to text women.

Jordânia: Holly crap. That’s expensive. I wrote that thing a long time ago. It’s a good book, but apparently we raised the price.

Andrew: Let me see. Is it? It is that. So you’re doing the events in person. Ninety-seven dollars. There it is. Will get me started immediately. You do any events in person?

Jordânia: Yes.

Andrew: Then the next big product that you sell is?

Jordânia: The next big product. We have a book called “Attraction Alchemy.” That comes with some phone coaching that I think is 247. And then we’ve got our membership site. That’s 67 bucks a month. That’s good because it gets you interacting with people. But honestly if I’m being fully a hundred percent transparent, you can only learn so much from an online product or a website. It’s like riding a motorcycle…

Andrew: You got to come in person.

Jordânia: You got to come and learn it from people. Or you got to at least talk to us.

Andrew: And it’s less than or fewer than ten people who will be there. By the way, it’s called The Art of Charm Academy. I can sign up for a buck to get started. And then it’s what? Sixty-seven bucks a month after, right?

Jordânia: That’s the membership site.

Andrew: That’s the membership site.

Jordânia: And all that stuff comes with your live programs. A lot of people are like, “I’m going to get started with this.” I’m like, “Great. But you’re just wasting time and telling yourself you’re making progress.”

Andrew: Whereas if I come into the live program I also get the membership.

Jordânia: You get everything.

Andrew: What does the live program cost?

Jordânia: It depends. They range from four to eight thousand.

Andrew: Four to eight thousand.

Jordânia: And we’re raising prices this summer, but yeah. And what, sorry?

Andrew: What do I learn or that?

Jordânia: We take you through the ringer. It’s six days. It’s accommodation in LA. It includes all the expenses except for flight and food. We take you through banter, starting conversations, generating report. We videotape you in interactions with other people. Then we go through the tape with you. We let you see the way that you interact with others. The way that you show up to others. We help you tweak that in an authentic way. We go through a lot drills and exercises that help expose insecurities or things that you’re dealing with. We help break those down so that they’re not sticking points anymore. We teach you how to deal with difficult people. We teach you persuasion, association. It’s huge.

Andrew: I can use it for dating, but it’s beyond dating too.

Jordânia: Oh, yeah. It’s beyond dating. It’s well beyond.

Andrew: You guys haven’t fully moved beyond dating. Dating is still there.

Jordânia: Oh yeah. It’s still there.

Andrew: It’s clearly dating.

Jordânia: Yes.

Andrew: Okay. What is this eBook that you acquired for 30 thousand dollars? Because apparently something happened there.

Jordânia: eBook that we acquired…

Andrew: You decided to come up with an eBook. Had acquired it for 30 thousand and the team that created it.

Jordânia: Thirty thousand bucks.

Andrew: No? Here’s what you told April. She asked you about the lowest point. We do pre-interviews and research.

Jordânia: Oh, the guy stole it and it was worth that much. We had invested 30 grand.

Andrew: Got it. So when you say you acquired it for 30 thousand, that means how much…So if you’re writing an eBook, how does it cost 30 thousand dollars?

Jordânia: It’s marketing and the salaries of all the people that were involved with it over a longer period of time and all the tech behind it. It wasn’t the eBook. No we didn’t acquire it for 30 grand. I would never pay 30 grand for an eBook.

Andrew: And then what happened?

Jordânia: Well, they decided, hey, Jordan, AJ, all those guys do is sit and collect checks because we don’t really understand their job. We’re just going to take this website and we’re going to take this IP, Intellectual Property, the book and associated content and we’re just going to sell them, and we’re going to keep the money, and screw you.

That really sucked. That was like the worst because those guys were, or so I thought, we were friends. I had paid them. Paid for their living expenses in New York. I had paid for them places to live, but I kind of after a while realized that I was dealing with people that were, like, . . . and this is 20/20 hindsight. This is not something I came to right away.

These guys really never wanted to build what we wanted to build. They just wanted income. They just wanted a way out of the grind. They wanted hope because they had nothing else going on. Looking at what they’re doing now they’re literally in the same position they were six years ago. I was mad about it for so long, and now it’s just, like, nah.

Andrew: Who are they?

Jordânia: I can’t name names. I won’t name names. It’s just like a dick thing to do.

Andrew: This got really bad. Your hair was starting to falling out in the shower.

Jordânia: Oh, my God. Sim.

Andrew: You started to obsess. How do you resolve something like this?

Jordânia: I was so stressed that, this is, again, five years ago. I was so stressed. I was taking showers. My hair was falling out. Eu estava enlouquecendo. We were in court all the time. I was just this big mess. Você sabe o que? I decided to stop worrying about it because there was nothing I could do. I realized that I’d gotten this far. My team was really great. We were like a family.

I was very distraught with what happened, but I realized everybody’s who’s left are the people who are willing to be around through thick and thin. Because if they’re putting up with this now this is a lean time. We were dead in the water. It was the worst thing ever. They’d had gone on and done things and they had been broadcasting like they were doing something really great.

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Then as time wore on we kept our heads down in the trenches and just kept building what we were doing at the [??] charm. We ended up fine. Then we look back at what they were doing and we realized, wow, they’re still living on people’s couches and have no money. It’s just, like, what was I worried about that whole time. That galvanized me in a lot of ways.

Not in the way where I’m, like, everything is a transaction and screw everyone, but where I’m, like, ah, everybody’s got their own crap in their head. Everybody thinks they’re doing the right thing and if they don’t, it’s just doesn’t matter. You can’t get wrapped up in their shit. If you do it will drown you. I can try to carry everyone’s brick, but what you need to do, if you have a vision, if you want to leave that legacy, if you want to build a company you cannot get wrapped up in the drama. You just can’t. It will kill you. It will kill your company anyway.

Andrew: I was doing some searches to see if I could find out exactly what happened. I’m sure I could, but it’s not worth getting into them. Where is self-help in the podcast directory? I’m now in the podcast directory to see where you’re ranking and . . .

Jordânia: Under self-help.

Andrew: Under self-help. I don’t see self-help. I see science, societies, sports. It’s under . . .

Jordânia: Do you see health?

Andrew: Sorry?

Jordânia: Health. Go click on health.

Andrew: There’s health. OK.

Jordânia: Sim. You see, Tucker Maxes [??]. That’s trending right now. It will be gone later. Then savage love cast, which is, Dan Savage. He’s always on top. He’s a New York Times Syndicated Columnist. He’s great at what he does. Then there’s us. Then if you go to the sub-category . . .

Andrew: Oh, yeah. Here we go. Now I see the top, under health. It’s like you said, it’s the Mating Grounds by, Tucker Max, his new one, Savage Love Cast, and then number three, Heart of Charm and right below is, Juliane Michaels Show.

Jordânia: Right, Jillian Michaels, yeah.

Andrew: Jillian, excuse me. What is it with all these people who created podcast? I think they are over estimating the power of just throwing up a podcast.

Jordânia: Oh, yeah. Podcasting right now is like the trendiest thing that you can do. It’s trendy among internet marketers. It’s trendy among authors. It’s very powerful, but here’s the thing. It’s a very double edged sword. If you’re an author and you start a podcast and you freakin’ suck at it, like a lot of them do, all the editing in the world is not going to make you more interesting, unfortunately.

There’s a lot of authors that are not that interesting other than when they write. They don’t have podcast. Those that do I feel like they [??] their material.

Andrew: I think we might be limiting ourselves by saying podcast . . .

Jordânia: I’m sure.

Andrew: . . . because go through the streets of San Francisco, ask someone to show you how they install a podcast on their phone. Most people don’t freakin’ understand what it is.

Jordânia: [??]

Andrew: Yes, there are programs like Stitcher that make it more accessible. Ask someone about Stitcher and they’re going to tell you about Pandora. That’s what they listen to not Stitcher.

Jordânia: Sure.

Andrew: These guys see that you do well and they want to jump in there and they think that it’s going to be a snap.

Jordânia: Sure.

Andrew: Because they’re trying to mimic you, I think, not just you. They’re trying to mimic a couple of other successful podcast. Because they are blinding themselves the power of going to YouTube.

Jordânia: Sure.

Andrew: Going to Text and Edition, all those other things. Let me do a quick plug here that I should have done really earlier in the interview. Then I want to follow up and ask you one or two more important questions. The plug is for Andrewswelcomegate.com, Andrewswelcomegate.com. Por quê? Because, here’s the thing, you need to find the same thing all of us entrepreneurs need. We need audience to take action. A specific kind of action.

Either go and buy or give us their email address or download a podcast. All those things take so much psychological understanding of what’s going on in the user’s head. What they’ve seen before. How to get them to sign up. All that stuff is pretty complicated. You can spend a lot of time doing it. Or you can just go to Lead Pages where they have the templates already set up. Where it’s all prepared to allow you to easily get the sale or get the email address. Because the guy behind it, Clay, is really obsessed with it. And they have tons of templates that will allow you to collect email addresses to close sales, etc.

One of those templates is my very own template. The one that I created for Mixergy. It took me a couple of years to get right. It took me a lot of time to increase conversions on. But it’s there and it works and it’s available to you right now if you sign up for Andrewswecomegate.com. It’s going to cost you a buck. LeadPages will power it. So you don’t even have to know how to add it to a WordPress site or to another site. But if you do, you can easily add it to WordPress. I know I have. You can easily add it to, frankly if you have no site you can do it. Or if you just have a URL and you want to point it over.

It’s all available to you if you go over to Andrewswelcomegate.com. It’ll work instantly. You’ll be amazed by how many email addresses you get. How many relationships you end up building with people who would otherwise just turn out to be hits. You know, just hit on the website. Not enough, you want a real relationship. That starts with someone joining your mailing list and you continuing the conversation that way. Andrewswelcomegate.com, it’ll work.

Frankly I’m a little worried, Jordan, that’s it’s going to work too well. Because I get a lot of my email addresses from people that go to my welcome gate who give me their email addresses. I’m a little concerned that by giving it to Clay who’s going to give it to everyone else that it might lose its power.

Jordânia: You might be right.

Andrew: Yeah, it might. And if it does then there’s a reason why it’s Andrewswelcomegate.com. I can always say, “All right, let’s delete the URL.” Then no more new people can have it.

Jordânia: Sim. Or you could just innovate and get something that works even better.

Andrew: Innovate. You out of your freaking mind? I got that working, can’t I just live off that for the rest of my life?

Jordânia: You can. You can try. You can see how…

Andrew: What do you think of people who talk about this…

Jordânia: Passive income?

Andrew: Passive income. Create…

Jordânia: I knew you were going to say that.

Andrew: …that runs while you’re sleeping.

Jordânia: That’s a bunch of crap. Ever look at Pat Flynn, runs Smart Passive Income. He’s so smart. He works eight hours a day.

Andrew: The guy works really hard.

Jordânia: He works really hard.

Andrew: I rejected his interview because when people suggested it because I said I don’t want to promote this idea of passive income. And then I came on here and the first question out of my mouth was about this passive income being a crock and why I didn’t have him on before. And he explained what he was talking about. It’s not this don’t ever work mentality that other passive income people have. I think maybe I read too much into the title of the site.

Jordânia: Well yeah. I mean if you think about it the guy who wrote the four hour work week works at least 40 hours a week I would say. So how’s that working out. And all those people that try to work four hours a week they’re broke and living in their mom’s basement. So you know, scoreboard.

Andrew: There is no passive income in this I don’t believe anyway. In the sense that you put a website up and the thing just works. People can look back and say, “Oh, Jordan doesn’t even have to man the live chat box.” No, but Jordan does. What do you have to do now or else the business is going to fail?

Jordânia: Sure. So everyday I’m hustling. I’m always on other shows. I’m always recording top notch hopefully content for The Art of Charm. I proof all the emails, well most all the emails that go out with my name on it because I don’t want that to be crumby. I do a lot of media and PR. I’m always training our sales guys on the little live chat thing. I always do a ton of customer service stuff.

Andrew: What’s media and PR for you?

Jordânia: What’s that?

Andrew: What’s media and PR?

Jordânia: So it seems like every day that somebody’s like, either another podcast or some sort of Ink magazine thing like, “We want to learn how you earn money digitally.” Or whatever the latest thing is. I get those opportunities all the time. I do a lot of networking where I talk to people and develop relationships. Try to help as many people as possible.

I also do coaching and consulting on my own, of course. About everything from podcasting to helping clients who are looking for advanced social skills for whatever purpose they want. Lawyers, doctors, special forces guys, people who need to negotiate things. Those people they all come to us. So I’m on the hook for that. There’s no such thing as passive income. Honestly I wish there was a such thing as a 40 hour freaking work week for me sometimes.

Andrew: Forty hours would be nice.

Jordânia: Forty hours, yeah.

Andrew: Yes.

Jordânia: I mean, I’m usually great because I’m flexible with my time off. But I certainly don’t have this overabundance of time off where I just don’t know what to do with myself. People who tell you they’re doing that are either not making that much money or they’ve made money and they’re coasting on it or they’re full of crap. Usually it’s some mix of those three things.

Andrew: Alright. Here’s where I wanted to end it. April said I got to ask you about going to North Korea.

Jordânia: Ah, yes.

Andrew: She doesn’t even have to say I got to ask you about going to North Korea. If I hear that you went to North Korea three times and you’re planning to return. I am going to have to ask you about that. Bill Clinton in 2009 had to fly into North Korea to rescue someone who was trapped there. Aren’t you worried you’re going to get trapped in North Korea?

Jordânia: I have been worried about that in the past. Sim. But I’ve run towards there. I’ve got enough decent connections with people there that I’m just hoping I don’t have to call Uncle Bill to come fly in and rescue me.

Andrew: Because he’s not going to rescue you. Imagine Bill Clinton with his problems with women, is going to fly and save the guy who used to have a [poo-op] podcast? Forget it! He can’t do it.

Jordânia: How do you think he got out of that rut? Honestly, I don’t think that it’s going to be an issue. I’m no causing any trouble. I bring the tourist industry there and a lot of engagements which is what they are after. I keep my mouth shut and keep my head down.

Andrew: Does the U.S. allow you to go to North Korea?

Jordânia: Yes.

Andrew: How?

Jordânia: Hey, I do a show and run a business about generating relationships. They love the fact that I do that.

Andrew: The U.S. is okay with you going to North Korea?

Jordânia: They are 100% okay with it and they’re 100% with tourist going there as well. It’s easy for me to get an American visa to North Korea. It’s a snap and it’s completely legal.

Andrew: Wow! And there is no embassy there. In case you run into trouble, what do you do?

Jordânia: There is a Swedish Embassy which has some a U.S. intersection that will help us out when we need it. But honestly the tours there are controlled, they are strictly guided. Our guides there know us, it’s not a big deal. It’s really not s big deal. We’re not there handing out freaking bibles and we’re not there with shotgun microphones and taking secret footage. We’re going through the motions and it’s fascinating but it’s certainly not controversial for them.

Andrew: If you get caught in North Korea and can’t come out and A.J. needs a new partner, will you be insulted if I ask him to partner up with him on the business?

Jordânia: No, go ahead. Please do, keep it running.

Andrew: Okay. Eventually insulted if I run edited excerpts of you in the end saying North Korea is a very safe place just so I can juice-up my traffic?

Jordânia: Yeah, no, go for it, man. Here’s the thing, it’s a very safe place for tourists because all the criminals are dead. They’re breaking rocks in the gulag somewhere. It’s not safe politically. I would say that if you want to go, it’s the adventure-ish type thing of the edgy tourist, but I wouldn’t want to set up shop there any time soon. I think it might be a little bit sketchy.

Andrew: That seems amazing. I can’t believe it.

Jordânia: It is amazing. I take a lot of entrepreneurs there. You should go.

Andrew: I’m a little afraid. To be honest, I would like to go.

Jordânia: People you know are going.

Andrew: For example?

Jordânia: Oh, we can talk of it. I got to get their permission. I don’t know if they want me to blab all over the place.

Andrew: Do you feel a little bit violated that I started out this interview by asking you about the cheese?

Jordânia: No! The cheese is totally fair game. I think it illustrates, here’s the thing, you’re never going to be so set that you don’t have to hustle. If you look at Mark Cuban on Shark Tank. That guy is not like, “Oh, screw it, I’m so rich I don’t give a crap!’ No, the dude is hustling. Everybody “on top is hustling. They get there by hustling, they stay there by hustling. There’s not a whole lot of [cursing] going on by people who actually earn their money as far as I’ve seen.

Andrew: And I’ve seen you hustle for a long time and it’s great to have had you on here. How do you feel it went?

Jordânia: I think it was cool. This is a good milestone for me personally because I emailed you a shit load back in the day. And somebody was, ‘Man, no thanks’. And that was fine.

Andrew: No, back then it was me that was ‘no’ somebody. I think I just looked at it and I said, all he must be doing is pick up artist stuff. I don’t know if there’s anything to this. I’m looking at the email here, we’ve got emails going back to 2010 maybe even before then.

Jordânia: Sim. So, I was Pat Flynn 1.0, you were like, I’m judging a book by its cover. No thanks!

Andrew: Totally. But the thing is, sometimes I feel really bad I say, “Why am I saying no to this guy?’ Jordan is obviously a good guy. Especially after Scott, I was starting to feel bad.” Then I say, “There is no perfect way to do this right. I have to just trust that I get it right most of the time and learn when I don’t.” If I look and say what can I learn from this it’s that I could of looked beyond the topic. I could of looked a little more in-depth and said, “What’s here?” But you know what?

I don’t know how I would have found out because you weren’t at the top of the podcast list at the time. If I look at your traffic numbers? Frankly, they don’t show much. If I look at your site, I don’t know how I would find out. The only way that I could find out for sure is, I’m looking at my inbox under your name. The other thing I see come up a lot is people like Kelly [Acevedo] saying, “You should meet these guys” and telling me in person like, John Corcoran and a couple of others. That’s the only way, frankly, that I know. I can’t tell otherwise.

Jordânia: Yeah, we come highly recommended. Honestly, if I took the first ‘no’ for an answer, I wouldn’t be anywhere right now.

Andrew: I’m not being defensive, I’m just saying, I think I’m trying to make myself feel a little bit better, because I do feel bad about that. I feel bad when I get it wrong with people. Especially, in this case it didn’t have to happen, but sometimes I then have to go and beg people to come back on, you know people who look at my inbox to find their email. I see, oh right we said no in the past.

That’s why I say no matter what you really can’t predict who’s going to do well in this business. You always have to just … even if we turn someone down I tell everyone on the team. We’re not turning them down forever, we’re going to beg them in the future.

Jordânia: Well, I appreciate you begging me to come back on this show.

Andrew: I’m really grateful for you for being on here. And I really enjoyed our conversation in private apart from this. I would not reveal anything including the cheese without our permission. And you know that none of the other cool stuff that we talked about was revealed publically. And I hope it’s not going to be the last time that we get together.

Jordânia: I agree, well of course we’ll hang we’re in the same city. I was thinking if you were set up for it we could do this face to face but it’s just not, we’re both in small rooms right now.

Andrew: You know, I think it was hard to do it face to face it so much easier to do it this way. The editing comes up really fast. And frankly also if you see my eyes dart around it’s because when you say something I quickly go and check it out. And see what else can I go? What other information can I get? And it’s kind of awkward to do that in person.

Jordânia: I agree, the only real downside to doing it in separate locations is I have to drink my own Scotch instead of yours.

Andrew: And I’ve got a really good collection here. It’s mounting. You know what just before my baby was born I built such a great collection at home and now I don’t even know when I’m going to get a drink at home. But I do it here in the office from time to time still.

Jordânia: Yeah, well excellent you’re biking distance from me, so I’ll see you soon.

Andrew: All right, I’d love it. Thank you for doing this interview everyone out there thank you for being a part of it. Jordan actually gave his email address so when I tell you all the time that the first way to start a conversation with someone who you’ve heard on Mixergy or seen do something credible at a conference or write a good blog post or a book.

When I tell you what you should do is email them or phone them or tell them in person, thank you. Usually I give you a little bit of homework, right. You have to go and look for it, in this case all you have to do is just scroll up in the transcript and his email address is right there.

Jordânia: That’s right.

Andrew: when you do that, when you say thank you. You end up setting the foundation for a relationship that often, often you can draw on in the future. Often starts out so well that you’ve warmed up the conversation with them for the next time. If you ever see Jordan in person don’t be afraid to interrupt and say, hey. Because apparently interrupting is okay if it’s an introduction.

Jordânia: It is, it’s okay. In fact it happened to me in Starbucks today.

Andrew: Somebody recognized you?

Jordânia: Are you Jordan Harbinger? And I went … I look around like I’m on ”Punked” because you know who does that? When does that ever happen? But it’s awesome.

Andrew: That is such a frickin cool thing. It’s one often best [??] about doing this. So I guess I can understand why Max …. Why Coco Max would want to do a podcast and all those other people. It is an awesome bi- product.

Jordânia: Yes, agreed. I’m sure he get recognized it’s on he’s on the cover of his own book.

Andrew: He’s on the cover of the book. Sim.

Jordânia: Exactly.

Andrew: All right, thank you so much for being a part of it. Thank you all to bye.



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